Far From Perfect with Holly Baxter Norton
Kylie Larson:
Hello, and welcome back to Far From Perfect. I am your host, Kylie Larson, and today we are joined by one of my most favorite people from Instagram. She is incredibly intelligent. She is inspiring. As of late, she has also been focused on being more and more authentic and real. Today I'm talking to Holly Baxter Norton. She is a nutritionist, dietician and a coach as well as co-owner of Biolayne. I reached out to Holly initially because I had noticed she was absent from social media just a bit, and she came out with a YouTube. The second she published that YouTube, I hopped right on it and much to my pleasant surprise she was talking about this transition that she was going through and how she's focused now on releasing perfection and embracing where she is and just understanding that there is so much more to life than just performing, than just living up to other people's expectations of you, than to constantly be hustling for your worth.
Kylie Larson:
Holly explains to us her up upbringing and how she got to where she is today and why it's important for her to start spreading this message of letting go of perfection. With the title of my podcast, Far From Perfect, I really don't need to have any other title for this podcast. This episode in particular. I hope everyone starts to really understand that perfect is not where it's at. Perfect is not a destination because it does not exist. We can all stop. We can strive. We can strive for excellence. We can do our best. At the end of the day, we need to know that we are enough. So please enjoy this episode. If you love it, like it, share it, rank it. That's how I can continue to get all these amazing guests on the podcast. I hope to talk to you soon.
Kylie Larson:
Welcome back to Far From Perfect everyone. I am your host, Kylie Larson. Today I am so grateful to be joined by Holly Baxter. Holly, you have been for me a trusted resource for at least the past five years. I think you are so smart. I mean, clearly, you know so much about nutrition. You are also co-owner of Biolayne, correct?
Holly Baxter:
Yes.
Kylie Larson:
You're the director of nutrition there?
Holly Baxter:
Yes.
Kylie Larson:
You guys, Holly is brilliant. We could talk all day about nutrition. We could ask her about macros and reverse diets and why we need to do this and do that. Today I want to talk a little bit more to Holly about her own personal journey as of late. Holly, when I was listening to your YouTube about where have I been, I want you to know, I'm sure you already know this. I'm just going to tell you, just in case. You are one of those people that I look forward to. When you're not there, I notice. I was like, "Gosh, I wonder what Holly's up to." Like we're friends. Then I'll scroll and not really, nothing much. Then you posted that video on your YouTube and I reached out to you immediately. I thought the timing was just impeccable. I just rebranded my podcast to Far From Perfect. Hearing you talk about your diversion away from perfection and people pleasing and all of this, it moved me. It makes me really happy for you, but I really want to talk about it. Does that sound good?
Holly Baxter:
Yes, absolutely. Sounds amazing.
Kylie Larson:
Well, before we talk about your evolution, let's talk about your history. You started off with sports. Can you talk about what got you into this industry?
Holly Baxter:
Yeah. It was a roundabout journey, I guess. I grew up in Australia. Specifically Tassie. It's the small little island that's completely detached from ... We'll call it the mainland. I think even when I was really young, I had this longing for seeing what the world had to offer. I really felt like, hey, there is so much to experience, so much to learn. I don't feel like my calling is right here in Tasmania. Every opportunity that I had ... The first step was really branching out and moving away from my family to go and study in college. That was a big deal. Usually people get stuck in their small little towns. I was like, "No, I don't want to be like that. I feel like I have greater purpose." I think from that really young age, I wanted to know what I was put here to do.
Holly Baxter:
I grew up outside of any religion. I'm not saying that I had no religion or didn't believe. It was just I never had any connections to people that were spiritual in any way. My parents, they grew up from blue collar families. They were both hard workers. They didn't have the best influences or mentors in their life. I think I was looking for mentorship. I was looking for guidance. I was looking for something to make me feel fulfilled. I veered away a little bit from sport. I did a lot of basketball and athletics and my mom, I think, put us in every single afternoon activity you can imagine when we were kids. We had exposure to so many different avenues. I remember thinking, "Wow. I'm so confused. There's so many things that I want to do." It was paralysis by analysis. I have no idea how to make a choice.
Holly Baxter:
I ended up deciding, hey, in Australia as a female, there's not a whole lot of opportunities to really have a successful career in sport. It wasn't like that back then. It's still really not now. Of course you go the educational route and what I knew and loved the most was nutrition, like health, caring for my body and what does that look like. I started off, I guess, with food science and nutrition. That actually stemmed from ... And I think this is where my, we'll call it all my imperfections really started and all my struggles really started to become a pivotal point in my life. It was just around that time where I was about to go off to college. I had already suffered with serious depression. At a couple of points in my life, I think during grade 11 and 12, I had attempted suicide. I was miserable.
Holly Baxter:
I really didn't know where I was meant to be, who I was supposed to connect with. I'd had and experienced some really traumatic things in my early life. I just felt like I was lost. I think the one thing that I felt like I actually had control over as a young teenager was what I put in my body. The sport that I was doing ... and it's really unfortunate that this is how it all evolved. The combination of a not so fun upbringing, some traumatic experiences and then I was working under one of the top coaches in Australia for athletics. He actually coached a lady called Cathy Freeman. She was the Olympic gold medalist for the 400 meter sprint. Everybody in Australia knows who she is. I looked up to her. I was like, "I want to be like Cathy."
Holly Baxter:
Then having the opportunity to work with her coach, it was like, wow. Here's this person I look up to that's training, everything they say and do must be right. One little comment about my physique I remember as a 15 year old ... He must have said to me, "Hey, you've got too much body fat. Look at Cathy for instance. She's really lean. She's really fast. You're just carrying around this dead weight." I understand where he was coming from. Yeah, of course. You don't want to have excess body fat as a top track athlete. You want to be powerful and explosive. But that was the one little thing that just tipped me into this downward spiral of an eating disorder. It was like, "Well, this is the only thing that I can control in my life. I feel so uncertain about all these things. I need to perfect my body because I'm in control of that."
Holly Baxter:
That was what was driving my decisions to get into college. That was food science nutrition. That was fueling my decision to become a dietician. I went on and did my masters in dietetics. It was like, yes, I need to seek back control through power of knowledge and learning. Now there is a lot of value to that and I am so grateful that I did because it has helped me, I think, look beyond some of the shallowness that a lot of us, I think struggle with when it comes to our physical appearance and our bodies. I've learned how to practically improve my physique. That also has a number of positives. It's helped my health. It's actually got me eating vegetables. I was this kid who hated veggies and didn't want to eat anything. Up until even my last year of college, I still wouldn't do it. Then I was like, you know what? It's probably about time I thought about my health for a second here.
Holly Baxter:
Then even more so when I got into the sport of bodybuilding. I'm so grateful for the knowledge that I learned, the experiences that I had because it's paving this pathway for I think what ultimately I'm meant to do now, which is in my opinion, provide evidence based information through nutrition or about nutrition and training, but also the importance of, addressing health outside of the physical aspect of health. I'm very interested and very passionate about the importance of the mind. I'm very passionate very recently about the importance of, or gaining understanding, or seeking understanding of spirituality. That was never something that I had any idea about.
Holly Baxter:
I remember looking when I did the determinants of health in my undergraduate. In the very first few years learning nutrition, one of these public health units was all of the determinants of health. I remember always seeing spiritual health. I'm like, "What does that even mean?" I had no idea. I was like, spiritual. "Okay. I guess there's fairies, there's angels." I really didn't know. I think there's so many things to unravel here and I guess to summarize how I got to be where I am now, it's been through my own negative experiences, my own personal struggles with an eating disorder, my own past traumas, and then not having the right guidance that has led to the very long slow journey of getting to a great place. A happy place where I feel at peace and I'm so comfortable and just I feel good about life now. It all makes sense.
Kylie Larson:
I have to tell you, look, I am so happy for you because doesn't it feel like a huge weight has been lifted? Tell me, how do you feel?
Holly Baxter:
It feels so free. It's like you walked around for the majority of your adult life ... I'm 33 years old now. I think I spent 15 years of my life just guessing and hoping that what I was doing, my decisions were right. Now it's like I've found what is right. I've found the wise words and what we should be modeling our life on. It's just given me peace. It's like, oh, the reasons that I was doing these things before, yeah, they might have brought me some happiness. This made me feel good, but it was almost like it wasn't enough. When you can step back and realize there is so much more purpose than yourself or for serving others or with the idea that you're seeking acceptance, it's like, wow. Now all the things that I'm doing have even greater meaning and greater purpose. I can actually apply this for so many better reasons. It's very freeing.
Kylie Larson:
I'm glad that you brought that up. The reason why, because the why we're doing these things matters. I don't know ... I can only speak for myself. I think sometimes we do these things to gather people's approval, to look good in someone else's eyes. When you have the right why ... We're not here to tell you what the right why is. When you're doing it for the right reasons, it just feels different and things fall into place.
Holly Baxter:
Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. It's questioned a lot of, I guess, my past decisions as well. I guess I can talk briefly about my history in competing. Obviously I had athletics when I was a kid. It's not really something that I could continue to do as an adult and it was just a very lonely sport, I guess. This enabled me. Stepping into the gym. It was my hobby after a college. I could go to the gym. I could hang out with people and train and spend time and develop some connections. That got me down the pathway of working with a lot of these pro athletes. It was actually on the suggestion of a client that I was helping prepare at the time who said, "Hey, have you thought about doing bodybuilding?" I was like, "Wow, yeah. I guess if I'm going to walk the walk as in provide the education for these people, I guess I should probably talk the talk and get up and actually do it."
Holly Baxter:
What really motivated me was that the world championships in that particular year were going to be held in Dubai and I had always, always wanted to travel and see what that was like. That was my motivation for doing it. I don't know that the why was really for a greater purpose then, but I'm so grateful for that experience because it's wound up in the perfect place. All in perfect timing. I had to win a state show and then a national show, and then I got to worlds and just so happened to win worlds as well and it's just carried on from there.
Holly Baxter:
All the while I was still really suffering from this feeling of, I guess, disconnect. I didn't feel valued as a human or worthy as a person unless I was doing things to the best of my ability. That it had to be perfect. I think I spent so much time focusing on perfecting my physical exterior, that the one thing that I was neglecting the most and that probably needed the most amount of attention was my mindset, my focus. Until I really started putting in an equal amount of time on improving the way that I think and what drives my decisions, it wasn't until that took place, that I really started to change and evolve and move in such a more positive direction.
Kylie Larson:
Well, I love hearing you talk about that because we're very much in alignment. I know you recently went to a conference with someone and talked about neuroplasticity. That's my jam. Have you ever gone to a Joe Dispenza event or do you read Joe Dispenza or listen to any Joe Dispenza?
Holly Baxter:
No, I haven't. I'll have to take a look.
Kylie Larson:
Oh my gosh. You must. I want to know whose seminar did you go to?
Holly Baxter:
Okay. It was Dr. Caroline Leaf.
Kylie Larson:
Yes. Love her.
Holly Baxter:
She was presenting at the Entree Leadership Summit earlier this year in Orlando. It is, I guess, a Ramsey event. Dave Ramsey, the financial guru. They are, I guess, a faith based group. It was fascinating. I remember sitting there and listening to all these incredible presenters. Some were mental health, some were financial experts. Then there were people that were like Dr. Caroline Leaf, who has studied, I guess, neuroplasticity and neuroscience for her entire career. She was sitting there talking about this group of participants that she'd been studying and using her, I guess, treatments and her methods. It involved people that were clinically diagnosed with depression. I'm somebody that had struggled with depression for the better part of my adult life. I mentioned before I was suicidal. I'd attempted suicide as a young girl. It never really left me but I just was given enough skills to cope and just to get through.
Holly Baxter:
What was fascinating was she would work with these individuals for about 60 days. They'd start baseline. They'd do all their measurements. There's lots of subjective scoring that they use to class somebody's level of depressive symptoms. Then they also take a scan of your brain. For the depressed brain, it would highlight all these areas in a certain color. I think it was red. Then you get to see their score changes, the improvements after the 60 days of this therapy and the brain is completely different. She would even show you some of the high res images of the spindles and the synapses inside your brain. Where here's the negative synapses and then here is what the synapses look like in the same area of the brain after the therapies and all it was really involving. I'm sure I'm really dumbing this down and it's a lot more complex than what it is.
Holly Baxter:
It was just through different cognitive behavioral therapies. It starts by what are your normal mindset and thoughts like? Reframing those thoughts. Changing your narrative. If my narrative is when I look in the mirror, "Wow, I'm so ugly. Wow, I'm so fat." Or "Wow, I'm so worthless." It started off by just moving from a negative self talk to just neutral. Just something that's neutral. Then moving from that neutral narrative to something that's positive. Then over that timeframe, you can literally change your thoughts to something that is completely different. Then over time that reflects your behavior. That reflects your character. That reflects your habits. It's who you are and now you can be a happy person. The fact that we have control to change how we are, how we feel, how we think, that's fascinating. To me, it's very fascinating.
Kylie Larson:
I agree. It makes me so excited. I'm like, okay, everybody needs to understand this. You think it's cool to have a six pack? Guess what's even more cool? Having this control over your life. Not that we need to control every single aspect, but you really are in control of your reality and you can change it if you want to. It's a lot of hard work.
Holly Baxter:
Yeah. Absolutely.
Kylie Larson:
Don't get us wrong.
Holly Baxter:
It is. I think that takes a lot of, I guess ... What's the word that I'm looking for? I guess I'll frame it this way. You've got to let go of your ego. You've got to be open to being vulnerable. You've got to be open to your imperfections, that's really hard. It's really hard for so many of us and I think so many of us are so proud and want to protect our ego because we are worried about other people's opinions of us and what they might think and how it might look. That's how I was raised. It was like, everything was just worrying about what other people think.
Kylie Larson:
Oh my gosh.
Holly Baxter:
Don't worry about what you think, but worry about what everybody else thinks. How you dress, what you wear, what they might say. I think if you can be vulnerable in that way and listen and then try to apply the things that we know to be right, my goodness, what's on the other side and what's waiting, it's so liberating. It's so freeing. Like you said, it's a weight off your shoulders knowing that you have the power to change and you can be whatever it is that you want to be and feel or think. It's awesome.
Kylie Larson:
Well, just a note on that really quickly. We don't have identical backgrounds, but there are some definite similarities. With that outward, what other people think is important, I grew up in the much the same way. I think everyone's parents, they do the best that they can. When I was going through my disordered eating stuff, I remember my mom instead of offering to get help, I remember her saying, "My friends think you're crazy." So it's like, that's not necessarily helpful and it's about what other people think, not about what's going on inside. I think a lot of us grew up that way. We forgot that what we think about ourselves is what matters the most. What we feel about ourselves.
Holly Baxter:
Yeah. I think a lot of that disordered eating, eating disorder behavior, it stems from something that is so far beyond your body. It usually is a result of past trauma or some negative experience where people truly feel like they're completely out of control. Then that is the only way they can seek fulfillment or happiness. It's really sad. I think rather than the experience that you had with your mom, I think my mom was still very much focused on the outward and wasn't really trying to uncover what was the reason behind why you feel this way. What might have contributed to this and working on that healing process, which is now why I feel like at age 33, I've had to go back through my entire life to first seek, I guess, understanding of the things that have happened and then to learn now through ... I guess my newfound spirituality is learning what it looks like to forgive and then learning how to use that in a way that I guess glorifies what the right thing is to do.
Kylie Larson:
Absolutely. You're the woman for the job Holly. Well, clearly ... I mean you've done this, you've done the work, but you've also had some help right with therapy and all of that. I'm a huge ... I always like to say, I'm not a therapist, but I'm therapy's biggest fan. I know when I started going, it literally changed my life for the best. I needed it so much. What has your experience with therapy been like?
Holly Baxter:
Oh, amazing. I think I suppressed and pushed it down for 15 years. I had an opportunity when I was a little younger through college to do therapy and I think at that point in time, I was not mature enough to recognize the benefits of it. I also was trying to prioritize the things that I thought other people wanted or expected of me, which was you need to get good grades. We didn't put you in college to fail. When push comes to shove, my decisions were, "Wow, I probably really need to make sure that I don't fail school." I was extremist. I will study as much as I can. I will work as hard as I can to make this all fit. That can wait.
Holly Baxter:
I didn't realize the struggles that were probably going to happen later in life by just avoiding. That's avoidant coping, and not addressing some of these underlying issues. It's been a really long journey because you've got so many things that you've never worked through and dealt with. It takes so much time. One single thing might be three months of therapy. I'll just work through once a week on this particular thing that happened and making sense of it, understanding, and then, okay, cool, that makes sense for why I do these things. Then, okay, now how can we work to improve and rectify? Let's change that mindset. That narrative's wrong. You've developed these beliefs that were completely false.
Kylie Larson:
Where did they come from? Someone told us.
Holly Baxter:
Yes. So I am such an advocate for therapy as well. I tell everybody, get a therapist. Everybody needs a therapist. I think some people have argued, and I understand some people share different opinions. That's fine. You might have friends or family members that you can talk to. I think it's really important. For people that we do love and that we care about, you don't also just want to overload them with your burdens.
Kylie Larson:
100%. Yes.
Holly Baxter:
It's not their responsibility to fix you. You have to have the desire to fix yourself. You are the person responsible for your emotions. I think that a lot of people take their friendships and family members for granted. It's also a lot of work to put on somebody that you care about. I think my other thing was, well, I also don't want to put so much burden on family and friends that they now resent me for even having these conversations. Again, I just kept ... It was like, this just makes sense now. I need to go to a therapist and I can get the help that I need.
Kylie Larson:
I didn't want anyone to know just how messed up I really was. I needed a safe space where I was like, okay, listen to this.
Holly Baxter:
Yes. Yeah, absolutely.
Kylie Larson:
You work with people still, right? You still coach some people.
Holly Baxter:
I do. I have a very small number of clients. I think most of my time now is really trying to reach the broader community. I would never let it go. I truly love that intimate connection. I think that's where I feel like I'm doing my best work is on that one-on-one level because you really can dig deep into people's ... What their struggles have been. It's very fulfilling. Especially I think at the level of client that I now have the privilege to work with. These people are so invested in change. They're committed. One of the reasons I think I left clinical dietetics when I was younger was because you're working with a population of people that have let themselves get to a point where they do not care about their health. They're unwilling to change and they're just there because their doctor told them they had to be there.
Holly Baxter:
The public healthcare system is ... At least in Australia, I didn't feel like I had enough time with patients to really get in, learn them, connect, have those intimate trusting conversations to make the progress that was needing to be done. Stepping away into the private sector and just having people come to you, paying out of pocket. I think when you have to give something, when there's a sacrifice, that's when people are ... They're invested. They really want to change. And it is so good to be able to work with that type of client because they fly. They fly.
Kylie Larson:
Has your coaching changed since you have started this personal journey?
Holly Baxter:
Yes. It's actually put me in a position a couple of times where I felt very conflicted. Especially as it related to changing people's bodies. I had to have a long, hard conversation with myself, with my therapist. Actually spoke with our pastor about it as well. I was like, who am I to change somebody's body? It's not really up to me whether someone should be losing weight or whether they should be this weight. A lot of people come to me and they want my expert opinion. "When you look at me, what do you think?" I'm like, "I think you're beautiful." I'm like, "You're amazing."
Kylie Larson:
Yes. You're perfect just the way you are.
Holly Baxter:
I definitely struggled for probably a year during my coaching, trying to decide what my coaching should look like. What is the right thing? I think it's definitely evolved now to a point where there is an equal emphasis on our mindset. Learning how to accept your body. Identifying some of these limiting beliefs. Some of it has nothing to do with nutrition and everything to do with the person that's within. Because a lot of the time, their why for wanting to change their bodies ... It's like, "Wow. That's one way to approach what you're searching for. Did you know there's this other way that you can achieve what it is you're looking for? Let's call it happiness or acceptance or validation."
Holly Baxter:
I'm like, "There's two ways that we can go about this. One of them, yes might be upskilling, learning about nutrition, putting in place evidence based approaches for training. However, let's also look at this area. What do we need to work on over here?" I would say that my coaching is so different right now and it really shows, I think, in the feedback that I have gotten. That's why I wake up in the morning, I'm like, "Yes. This is awesome."
Kylie Larson:
I'm so happy to hear that you had that year where you were so conflicted because I go through it once a year where I'm like, am I contributing to the problem? Am I contributing to diet culture? I know that I'm not. I've reconciled it over and over again. I always have to check myself. I think it's because we are in it for the right reasons and we do have the tools and the know how to help people change their outward appearance. You have to bring both. It can't just be about the physical. Like you're talking about. It has to-
Holly Baxter:
Yeah. I think some people, for example ... We can look at weight loss or weight gain. I think some individuals, in order for them to be healthier individuals, that might look like losing 30 pounds. In that situation, if health is at risk, their biomarkers are saying, hey, we've got evidence of prediabetes, we've got high cholesterol, your lipids are all over the place, in that case, it's like, yes, I have this skill. I'm blessed to have this knowledge and education to be able to share with these people. That to me is like, yes. That's a win. Then in the opposite case, there are some individuals that have come to me and they're extremely underweight, very undernourished and a muscle building phase absolutely makes sense for that person. I feel, again, very grateful that I can help them do that in the most accurate and hopefully the fastest way possible.
Holly Baxter:
I think the difficulty has definitely come up or shown itself for me in the sport of physique enhancement and bodybuilding. I know when I started, my heart was not in it for the right reasons. I think that was a bandaid solution. It was an attempt or an effort to mask low body confidence, poor self image. It was used as a way to make myself believe that I was somebody that should be valued and respected in this community. It's like, if you don't look the part, why would somebody want to take that advice for the person that needs to lose the weight and for health reasons or gain the weight for health reasons? I think that now having gone through all of these experiences personally, I am able to better identify which people do need this help and then who actually needs to focus more on their mindset. Now it's much more a combination of both.
Kylie Larson:
That's a perfect segue into something I wanted to ask you about. I believe you are living proof of this now. I wanted to get your opinion on, can someone be a physique competitor and not fall into or have disordered tendencies? What's your take on that?
Holly Baxter:
My first answer is actually yes. I wouldn't have believed that until my last 12 month experience. For me, and for those that don't know anything about my competing history, I started in 2015. That was my first competition ever. Then I'm actually competing in worlds in two weeks time. World championships for the WBFF, which is super exciting.
Kylie Larson:
Yes, very cool.
Holly Baxter:
I cannot wait. The why for me right now is number one, it's a platform to reach women and to speak out and inform people of, "Hey, if you're struggling with this, this is something that I have and living proof of having overcome." Or at least feeling for the most part healed. I don't think anyone will ever be truly free of the struggle. That's always going to be there. You can certainly know how to manage. The fact that I can now do this competition and not be attached in any way, shape or form to the outcome of that lean physique and to be able to go, I'm just doing this as a goal. I want to go back and win.
Holly Baxter:
Last year I came runner up at world championships. I thought I'd retired. I was like, "No, no, no, no, no. You're a competitive. Let's go back and do it again." To be able to have this now as just a goal without my eating disorder driving that behavior, the sacrifice that goes into competing, I was honestly terrified that I wouldn't be able to do it. I think it's been so comforting knowing that this has been the easiest prep. Now prep, for as easy as it can be.
Kylie Larson:
Right.
Holly Baxter:
It's been just a wonderful thing to be able to say, you can. You can do this without having an eating disorder. I will say, based on the research that we have in the competitive space, in the bodybuilding space for natural drug tested athletes and in the non-drug tested federations, I would say, I think the percentage of something's like 80 to 90% of people that are competing are either diagnosed and have an eating disorder, or they have disordered eating behaviors. Whether that's binge eating, purging, compensation through either purging or exercising and then preoccupation with food. The list goes on. There's so many different disorders that people can develop.
Holly Baxter:
I think a lot of people in the body building space may have gotten to that place because of some personal inner struggle. Whether it is low body confidence, feeling like they needed to look a certain way to gain acceptance, to get a boyfriend, to get a girlfriend. I think that's probably where a lot of people start from. Mine was a way to control the disorder. It was like, this is now a reason for me to stay lean.
Kylie Larson:
It's acceptable.
Holly Baxter:
I found a sport that basically gives me complete and utter control of my diet and it will make sure that I stay lean all year round. It was such an extreme way of living. Now, I think from a competitive standpoint, for those people that are at a professional level, the amount of work that goes into a contest prep is pretty extreme. Does that still mean that somebody has a disorder because they're practicing pretty extreme training? They have to practice a very restricted diet towards the end. I don't think that that means that there's a disorder behind it. What it does mean is that there's probably a lot of sacrifices going on in other areas of their lives.
Holly Baxter:
Now, that may or may not be contributing to other negative thoughts and beliefs. I think the way that we need to look at this ... I actually asked my husband this very recently, because I always picked fun at him because as a bodybuilder and a power lifter-
Kylie Larson:
I love that.
Holly Baxter:
He is like this robot when it comes to tracking macros. I'm like, "Yo, I dare you not to track that." Or I'm like, "You're not going to eat that are you? It will take you over by five grams." He was so diligent about his tracking it's perfect.
Kylie Larson:
Oh my God.
Holly Baxter:
I'm like, "How bro? I like food way too much. How are you doing this?" He was like, "I don't know. It's just habit." I thought about it. For me, back when I was still really struggling with my identity and my body image, if I stuffed something up, it was utter turmoil going on in my mind. The amount of stress and the anxiousness and the guilt if I made a mistake. The amount of perfecting and correcting that went on behind the scenes to make sure it was all perfect. I would end up catatonic laying on the bed. I don't even know where my mind is. It's left my body. It's like I was numb due to the amount of internal turmoil. I said to Layne, "So does that make you feel the same?" he was like, "No. It's just a habit for me. It gives me absolutely no stress at all."
Holly Baxter:
I think the key here, and I'll bring back to what I was saying before, is how much does it negatively impact your life? If by you doing the sport of body building and by you having to maintain that lean physique, is something that causes you stress and discomfort and is impacting your quality of life, then it's probably a problem and we need to start working on that. But in some cases ... And I'm so excited to feel like, hey, I am in this boat now. I have moved ship to where it's no longer even a thought. I'm doing this just because it's a fun, also very hard goal to achieve. I can just tick that off and feel great about it. There's a really awesome purpose behind it now that gives me a platform to speak to other people that are going through those struggles.
Kylie Larson:
Wonderful.
Kylie Larson:
I'm excited for you, Holly.
Holly Baxter:
Thank you.
Kylie Larson:
Speaking of how much that takes. It is not that you are working out all day and just cooking clean food. You are a real person who runs a large company. You coach one-on-one clients, you've got two kids to take care of. You need to take care of yourself. Have your priorities shifted since you've grown as an individual? Has that helped you? What are your current priorities and has growing as a person and evolving helped you with these struggles?
Holly Baxter:
Yeah, absolutely. I think one of the hardest things for me when I moved from Australia to USA was that I had created this perfect pristine bubble environment that was just me and I controlled all the variables. I had everything set up in a way that enabled me to live the competitor lifestyle. And even with doing all of that, I was still not a happy human. There was still so much pressure to be and look a certain way and everything was about impressing other people. There was no ever effort to just be happy in myself. When I moved over here ... And my husband has two kids to a previous marriage. I was stepping into a role that I had never, ever been privy to. I don't think I'd even babysat a child.
Kylie Larson:
Oh my goodness.
Holly Baxter:
Seriously. I remember one of my best friends when I was in Australia had three kids when I was still living there and I'd always invite her to come and do stuff. I remember saying to her one day, I'm like, "Do you actually like me? Because you never spend any time with me. You're always busy doing something." She was like, "No, no, no, I've got a family. It's just hard." I remember thinking, okay. I truly didn't understand. I had no idea. When I came over here, I think I had the shock of my life. I was like, "Yo, kids are really hard. Oh my god, they can't feed themselves. Oh my god, they need you to put them in the bath. Oh wait, you've got to run the bath water for them." It is just such a change in where your time goes, where it's spent and that increased responsibility. I moved into this environment now where there's constant chaos, which is what it's living with Layne on his own. He's chaos just by himself. Then his kids, and the whole trying to juggle a co-parenting lifestyle with the kids' mom and us. It was just eye opening for me and my whole environment and my whole world just felt like it blew up.
Holly Baxter:
I think I had to ... My only choices were, I need to learn how to cope in this environment or I'm going to drown. It was really hard. I just launched myself into self development and how can I stop the anxiety and how can I stop the stress? Through that therapy, through so much reading, I think it has helped me determine what a better sense of balance might look like. It's helped me understand how my priorities should be. It's not that one is always at the top. It's learning how to triage. It's learning how to pivot between all the things that are important in your life. Like you said, we have a number of businesses. We have our coaching team, which is ... We've got 15 staff in total we have to manage. We have our supplement company, Outwork Nutrition, which there's constant change, constant growth, new products, new developments, formulations. Then we have our nutrition coaching app. I think about the number of people that I now have to communicate with every day. It's probably 100 people. You wake up to hundreds of emails every day. That's when you clear your emails out the night before.
Holly Baxter:
I think for me, I've always been someone that I commit to one thing at a time and I go hard. That extremist personality, and it was not working. I just felt like I was spiraling out of control. I've got this family, I've got this husband and a relationship to nurture. I've got all these business relationships to nurture. I still wanted to have my own goals. Then there's making sure that you're financially set up in a way that enables you to have the freedom that you need. I think a lot of it just boiled back down to, if you want to have a happy life or feel like you've got peace of mind, you've got to let go of that perfectionism.
Kylie Larson:
Yes.
Holly Baxter:
Yes. I wanted to do everything perfectly and there is no such thing as perfect.
Kylie Larson:
There is no such thing.
Holly Baxter:
It was one of the limiting things that was holding me back from happiness. Now I have learned to be a little bit more flexible. I approached flexible dieting, I'm like, why didn't I approach this to the rest of my life? It's like, no one's ever going to be perfect. I think even when you first start flexible dieting and counting macros ... I've been doing it for over 10 years now. Even when I learned flexible dieting, I still thought it had to be perfect. I was like, "Oh, I've got to hit the numbers exactly. That's what flexible diet is about. Perfection. Yes. I've got this. I've got a flexible diet the perfect way." Now I'm like, "Yo, you're really missing the whole part about flexible."
Holly Baxter:
I think being able to let go of that, it's hard. I think one of the other really huge struggles that a lot of perfectionists have is they're probably high achievers. They're used to doing things on their own, getting things done. They back themselves. They don't count on other people because they're the ones that are going to get it right. It makes it very difficult to scale a business.
Kylie Larson:
You can't grow.
Holly Baxter:
You will not be able to scale and build a successful company if your idea is that you just do it all alone. You have to start to delegate. You have to be able to trust. Part of that comes down to good communication and teaching and giving people the tools they need to do their job successfully. That's been a whole new process for me and my husband. We both were coaches on our own to start with. We did everything, it's you and that's it. I think he took a harder time or took a longer time to let go of the control than even I did. As the wife, I'm here like, "Come on, you can do this. Layne, you've got to let go." I think throwing myself into that personal development world absolutely has enabled me to actually grow and scale and achieve a way better sense of happiness.
Kylie Larson:
Well, it's so funny. I had a leadership coach on that podcast a while ago. I would love to send you her your way. I was like, "Karen, it's like ..." Just like you and Layne. I didn't sign up to be a leader. I signed up to help people with nutrition. You do a good job. You end up having a team, but you don't know how to manage a team. It's all growing pains.
Holly Baxter:
Yeah. And I think-
Kylie Larson:
Growth is good.
Holly Baxter:
Some people, maybe they have that skill in them. If their ego gets in the way or they're not open to being vulnerable and to admitting fault or flaws or things that they don't know. Like in business. For me, for instance. Even though when we go back, I think back to when I was 18 and I did my personal training certification, you got a business certification with it. There were so many things about business that I did not know because I haven't had a number of corporate roles. I've had two corporate roles in my life. I had an idea of how big corporate looks, but I had no idea about what small worlds look like. Me being the perfectionist, I was like, "Well, I've had that experience and we need XYZ and all these things." It was so overwhelming that it was like, I don't even know where to start.
Holly Baxter:
Yeah. I think being vulnerable and open and letting people in and asking for help, that's a really hard thing for people that have been high achievers in school, in their academics, or sports people. They're used to performing and being the number one, but when it comes to business, you hear so many stories of people really struggling when their athletic career's over because no one knows or teaches them what it's going to be like once that's gone. It's like their identity's gone and now they don't know how to ask for help because their whole life they've been this star athlete. Everything's just worked out for them. Then they lack that skill to ask for help. So yeah, I think-
Kylie Larson:
I heard something that was really great. I also am huge into spirituality and I was at this really amazing breath work workshop. We did this breath work and it brought up emotion because I'm trying to connect to my body. Sometimes I just operate up here. I'm sure you know. We were trying to connect and the facilitator brought up a quote and it said, "When we don't allow people to help us, we are robbing someone of an opportunity to perhaps do something that they love." Because a lot of people love to help. If we feel like we have to do all the things all the time, we're taking away opportunities from other people.That really resonated with me. I thought that was a really interesting perspective.
Holly Baxter:
Yeah. I guess that would align with the idea that our purpose is to glorify God and he wants us to use our specific individual talents to glorify him. By denying help and support from somebody that is an amazing counselor or mentor, yeah, it's like you're closed off to the idea of doing that.
Kylie Larson:
Well I love what you guys have built. You know I am Biolayne's number one cheerleader. Just like your therapy. I've been working with Layne forever. I've used your workout builder. I work with Joey now as my programming coach. Use the supplements. I see how you guys do your business and I have mimicked what you've done on a small scale with my team. Thanks for being an example for how to do things. It's hard when you're figuring it out, right?
Holly Baxter:
Oh, it really is. I wish that I had ... I'm trying to be what I wanted when I was younger. I think a lot of my decisions now are like, okay, what person did I need in my life that would've helped me with this thing? Or how would I be, or what would I want to do if I needed help in business? I think that's really the directive for our companies. It's like, I know the things that I didn't have and experience so now I want to be able to make sure that we can do that for the people that are in our teams.
Kylie Larson:
Well, and I think also what I really enjoy is you have all of the things. If someone needs to learn about nutrition or training, they can go there and it's priced at a way where you can actually do it. I think that's really helpful.
Holly Baxter:
Yeah. I think one of our mission statements, it is to be able to provide affordable nutrition coaching to everybody. I hope that we can continue to deliver really well priced products that are evidence based that actually do what they're meant to do and they are done in an efficacious way. Absolutely. Yeah. We really pride ourselves on that.
Kylie Larson:
Oh yeah. The only thing I have not used is the workout ... I mean the macro tracker. What's the name of it again?
Holly Baxter:
Oh, Carbon Diet Coach.
Kylie Larson:
Carbon diet. Only because I have you guys.
Kylie Larson:
I've heard great things. I've heard great things about it. How's it going from your perspective?
Holly Baxter:
Oh, it's going amazing. We're actually in the process of going through some management changes. I'm really excited to see the end result of that because it means that our dev team is most likely going to blow up. We'll have significantly more people to help and start actioning all of the features that we have had on a long list for some time now. It is really, really good. We have about 45,000 subscribers and we're only in our second year of business, which is incredible.
Holly Baxter:
I think one of the awesome things about Carbon is that number one, it is actually a coach. I know you talked about working with Joey. So for people with their own nutrition coaches already, I understand not needing the coaching component. One of the beauties that our coach comes with is it has the built in tracker. There are a lot of unique features that enable you to calorie cycle for example. We have a calorie planner, which does all the math for you and works out, hey, if I want to go and have a three day weekend with the girls, and I know I want to be able to have a couple of glasses of wine or whatever it might be, you can go to those days, ramp the calories up to whatever it is you feel like you need and then the coach automatically does the math and makes sure that your other days will keep you compliant.
Holly Baxter:
Then we have a feature for US and Canadians, which is macro calories. That feature, if you click it on, it correctly calculates the calories that you're consuming. A lot of the times if people use My Fitness Pal or macro trackers. At the end of the day, you might have ... It looks like you've hit all your macros but it says, "Oh, I've still got 300 calories left. Oh cool." You'll go and eat a snack. Unfortunately, the reason that that happens is because the food labels here in USA, they're allowed to display the calories minus any calories that come from fiber or sugar alcohols. People that are consuming anything with lots of fiber added or sweeteners to get the calorie content down, even though they're not calorie free, they're treated like they're calorie free on a food label. People end up eating way more than what they actually thought. There are some really cool features in the app.
Kylie Larson:
I'll make sure to link to everything. Well, I have to tell you, you made an Instagram post about that. How can I hit my macros, but my calories be off? You many years ago, Holly.
Holly Baxter:
Yes.
Kylie Larson:
I share that all the time.
Holly Baxter:
Oh really?
Kylie Larson:
I share it all the time, because I'll get clients are like, "Well, did I hit my ... I just don't understand." I'm like, "Look at this Instagram post. It'll blow your freaking mind, Thank you for that Instagram post.
Holly Baxter:
Yeah. Actually, I'm really happy. In Australia now they've made the changes to the food labels. I feel like they're a little bit more ahead in so far as government regulations around food and I guess the supplement industry as well. America is still a little bit behind. I think the FDA really need to up their game.
Kylie Larson:
Girl. There's a lot of issues there.
Holly Baxter:
Yes. It's tough. At least there is one country that I know of that are doing it right now so I don't have to worry about those guys.
Kylie Larson:
Well, thank you again for your time. Thank you for sharing your story. Good luck in two weeks.
Holly Baxter:
Thank you. I'm very excited.
Kylie Larson:
Wonderful. I will make sure everyone knows how to get ahold of you, how to follow you. I'm not kidding you guys, Holly and her team put out the best content. I know there's a lot of voices out there. My suggestion is to find one or two that you really trust and just latch on. That's what I do. Then it just takes out the confusion.
Holly Baxter:
Yeah. That's exactly what I did when I was first starting. I think I ran into my husband in 2012 and I was like, "Why didn't I have you 10 years ago? This would've been so much easier."
Kylie Larson:
Seriously.
Holly Baxter:
Yeah. Now I'm married to him and yeah, it's all worked out very well. Find yourself some good evidence based influences because it can change your life. I wish that I had someone helping me when I was young and I really try ... Like yourself. Kylie obviously is another really great resource to help learn fact from fiction.
Kylie Larson:
Yes. Oh, speaking of your husband, my husband wanted to let you know that he feels like the four of us would get along just great. Anytime you come to Denver, you can stay at our condo and you can go skiing.
Holly Baxter:
Heck yeah. I am so down for skiing. We're going to have to wait until Layne finishes world championships. He's got power lifting coming up soon.
Kylie Larson:
Oh yeah. When is that?
Holly Baxter:
October. He said, "I don't want to do anything that can kill me between now and then."
Kylie Larson:
Well, I will let you get on with I'm sure you're very busy day. Thanks again for being gracious with your time, Holly.
Holly Baxter:
Thank you for having me. It's been so lovely to speak to you.
Kylie Larson:
Thank you. Talk to you soon I hope.
Holly Baxter:
Thank you.
Kylie Larson:
Thank you again for listening to today's episode with Holly. If you would like to follow her on Instagram, you can find her at Holly T. Baxter. Don't forget also to check out their supplements. It is Outwork Nutrition. I will have links to that in the show notes. I am a huge fan of their pre-workout and their recovery drink that has a little bit of creatine in it. Just enough to help with the recovery and all the benefits that creatine does have to offer.
Kylie Larson:
Again, Holly and her team over at Biolayne, they also have a workout builder. If you are looking for affordable workout plans that you can follow on your own. Then of course, if you're interested in supporting me and my team even more, we have our next round of Lift To Get Lean and Lift To Get Lean Revive starting in October.
Kylie Larson:
With our program, we give you your custom macronutrients, a six week strength training plan to follow along with all the accountability and support and then help with shifting your mindset. There's a lot of reframing that goes on in our program. A lot of the stuff that Holly talked about above. Nutrition and strength training, they don't operate in a vacuum. You really need to address your wellness from all fronts. The strength training is important. The nutrition is important. You cannot neglect your mindset and that's what we've been focusing on ever since we started our program. Ever since I launched Lift To Get Lean all the way back in 2016. I'll put a link to that also in this show notes. You can connect with me on Instagram at the Kylie Larson, and I hope to talk to you soon.